Date   

Re: Astrophotography Done with the iEXOS-100, EXOS 2, and G11 Post your Pictures and Details! Lets Show What These Mounts Can Do. #G11 #astrophotography #iEXOS-100 #EXOS2

Wade Prunty
 

Thanks Ian!

All of my images are taken in Bortle 9 skies next to one of the largest airports in the US.
--
Explore Scientific iEXOS-100
Explore Scientific EXOS2 PMC-8
Explore Scientific AR102
Celestron RASA 8
William Optics SpaceCat 51 APO
ZWO ASI294MM Pro
ZWO ASI183MM Pro
ZWO ASI533MC Pro
Canon 5D, T3i (Both Astro Mods)
William Optics UniGuide
ZWO ASI120MM-S
ZWO ASIAIR Pro


Re: Possible defective unit #iEXOS-100 #TECHNICAL

Jerry Hubbell - Explore Scientific VP Engineering
 

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 09:11 PM, Mario wrote:
Quick note, some others seem to be observing this same behaviour:
 
Appears here with lunar observation...link
This view of the iExos internals that seem to oscillate in time to what is being observed through the scope...link
Not sure if the second video is related bu seems to be....line the motor is pausing then 'catching up'
 
I would expect this motion to be smoothly tracking...not oscillating...
Hi Mario,

There is a documented 1.3 second oscillation in the motor driver chip which I have talked about previously ( https://espmc-eight.groups.io/g/MAIN/message/3894 ) as some of our customers identified on the G11. We identified this issue about 2 years ago but the magnitude of the problem is typically < 0.5 arc-second. In fact it has been demonstrated to be smaller than that as some users have reported an total RA guiding error ~ 0.5 arc-second including scintillation effects during long exposure imaging. This behavior does not affect long exposure imaging, nor lunar/planetary imaging at long focal lengths as the stacking software can manage the small amount of "jitter" caused by the motor driver. The only real observing that was impacted was visual observing at very high focal lengths typical when observing Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, etc.  Focal lengths of > 2500 mm when visually observing these planets were impacted.

At the time of discovery, after some investigation, we found that an increase in the motor current on the G11 helped to reduce this 1.3 second "jitter" significantly, although we also found that it depended on the equipment load and could be exacerbated by having weight at long moment arms which increased the inertial load. 

Based on your video, I made some measurements and assumed the following:

Video is a 1080p resolution image
The full width of the moon would effectively stretch the full width of the frame if centered
The width of the moon is 2160 km and 30 arc-minutes (1800 arc-second)
I measured the motion of the video using the crater Hell which is 33 km wide
I found that the oscillation (peak to peak) was about 1/2 the width of crater Hell, or about 15 km
The pixel scale for the image was about 2 km per pixel (2160/1080) or about 1.7 arc-seconds/pixel (1800/1080)
Based on this, the oscillation is equal to about (15 km / 2 km) * 1.7 arc-seconds which equals 12 arc-seconds peak to peak.

This is equal to about 2 arc-seconds RMS which is about 4 times what we would expect based on our previous experience.

It appears that there is something in your equipment configuration that could be aggravating the appearance of this tiny oscillation, perhaps the total load or how it is mounted.
If you could give me some details in that regard I would appreciate it. Also, it might be possible to increase the motor current setting to help mitigate this issue and reduce the 
magnitude of the oscillation.  

Again, it is important to realize that this motion is just one component of the motion you will see when observing the moon or planets at a large focal length either through the
eyepiece or via live video.  There is the natural drift in Declination, there is the local seeing conditions which can cause the motion to be at least the same magnitude or even more
than what you are seeing here.

Thanks for your report Mario.
 
--
Jerry Hubbell
Vice President of Engineering

Explore Scientific, LLC.
jrh at explorescientific.com

www.explorescientificusa.com
1010 S. 48th Street
Springdale, AR 72762
1-866-252-3811

Author: Scientific Astrophotography: How Amateurs Can Generate and Use Professional Imaging Data
             Remote Observatories for Amateur Astronomers: Using High-Powered Telescopes From Home


Mark Slade Remote Observatory (MSRO) IAU MPC W54 Equipment
Wilderness, VA
Mounts
: ES PMC-Eight G11 + Telescope Drive Master (TDM)
Scopes: ES 165 FPL-53 ED APO CF, ES 102 FCD100 ED APO CF
Cameras:  QHY174M-GPS + FW, QHY163C
Misc: 3-inch 0.7x Focal Reducer Field Flattener, Filters: Luminance,
Red, V-band Photometric, Diffuser, 200 lpmm Spectral Grating

Software: MaxIm DL 6, Cartes du Ciel, Astrometrica, AstroImageJ, AutoStakkert!


Re: Possible defective unit #iEXOS-100 #TECHNICAL

James Ball
 

Mine does the same thing whether it is using ExploreStars on the Android tablet or Ascom through a wired connection.  With the motor cover removed it will pulse like the second video as soon as it is unparked.  The pulse in the gears is in perfect time with the pulse sound heard from the electronics, just like the sound in the video Jennifer posted of the controller on her G8. 

With a 700mm FL scope and 25mm eyepiece you can't really see it, but with a 2000mm FL scope and 10mm eyepiece it is very evident.  It is definitely a start/stop motion in the drive motor.  Could Ascom be using the Point mode instead of Tracking mode for some reason?

As for the photography, it doesn't hurt the quality of the images when stacking an .avi file for planetary/lunar it might even help average out any dust specs on the sensor window.  I do think it is part of the problem when trying to get something like SharpCap Object Tracking to calibrate on high magnification work on planets.  I am not sure how to calculate the amplitude of the motion from the video clip, but I would imagine it is in the arc second or sub arc second range, which is probably not even noticeable in a normal guide scope used for AP.

For reference I use ASCOM 6.4 SP1-6.4.1.2695, PMC-Eight ASCOM driver revised 2019.01.07 Release Any CPU, SharpCap version 3.2.6392.0 7/28/2020, CdC Version 4.3 beta-4178-2b5ac26 2020/09/28 04:07:59  or current version of Explore Stars for Android and current newest firmware for the mount.

-- James Ball
Dawson Springs, Ky
Mounts: iEXOS-100
Scopes: Meade ETX90RA(deforked now) Sky Watcher 150MCT
Camera: ZWO ASI 120MC-S
Software: Explore Stars Android, ASCOM, Stellarium Scope, Stellarium, AS!3, SharpCap, RegiStax6.


Re: Astrophotography Done with the iEXOS-100, EXOS 2, and G11 Post your Pictures and Details! Lets Show What These Mounts Can Do. #G11 #astrophotography #iEXOS-100 #EXOS2

Mario
 

Beautiful Wade!


On Sat., Oct. 3, 2020, 3:02 a.m. Wade Prunty, <wadeprunty@...> wrote:
Processed this after Gary Palmers's demo today.

.

Target: Messier 31, The Andromeda Galaxy

Imaged and Processed by Wade Prunty with:
William Optics SpaceCat 51 APO Telescope

Explore Scientific iEXOS-100 Mount
Canon T3i DSLR
Optolong L-Pro Filter
William Optics UniGuide Scope
ZWO ASI120MM-S
ZWO ASIAIR Pro
95 x 300 Second Exposures
PixInsight
Topaz Labs AI Suite
--
Explore Scientific iEXOS-100
Explore Scientific EXOS2 PMC-8
Explore Scientific AR102
Celestron RASA 8
William Optics SpaceCat 51 APO
ZWO ASI294MM Pro
ZWO ASI183MM Pro
ZWO ASI533MC Pro
Canon 5D, T3i (Both Astro Mods)
William Optics UniGuide
ZWO ASI120MM-S
ZWO ASIAIR Pro


--
Regards,

Mario
Streetsville, Ontario

Mounts: iExos 100, Skyguider Pro
Scopes/Lenses: Main/Orion 80mm, DSLR/Tamron 18-400mm lens, guide/ZWO-340A
Computer: ASIAir
Cameras: Canon T2i DSLR, ZWO120MM (guide)
Utility Software: iPolar (for Skyguider polar alignment), iCap, Explorestars, Canon EOS Utility
Image Processing Software: Photoshop


Re: Possible defective unit #iEXOS-100 #TECHNICAL

Wes Mcdonald
 

Mario

What does the asiair use to drive the pmc8?  Does it use the Es ascom driver?

Surging during lunar viewing makes no sense relative to the pmc8.  If the moon is moving in steps it is because the mount is being driven in steps.  This is how explorestars in Point mode does it.   But when you are using the ES driver and ascom the mount tracks smoothly at sidereal rate.   No surging.   

I believe you stated the surging is not present for stars.  In fact we all know it is not as our photos look great.  

I suggest to you the issue is with how the asiair is driving the mount.

Wes



--
Wes, Southport NC
EXos2-GT PMC-8, iExos 100
ES ED 127, 10" LX200GPS+wedge, Astro-Tech 8" Newt, ETX-90, 60mm no-name guide scope ~ 260mm FL
Polemaster, Orion ST-80 and SAG, ZWO 290MM, D5300 astro modified
Nina, Bootcamped Mac Mini control computer, RDP to iMAC
110 amp hour lead acid deep discharge battery for field power
Electrical Engineer, Retired


Re: Astrophotography Done with the iEXOS-100, EXOS 2, and G11 Post your Pictures and Details! Lets Show What These Mounts Can Do. #G11 #astrophotography #iEXOS-100 #EXOS2

Wes Mcdonald
 

Nice wade
Wes

--
Wes, Southport NC
EXos2-GT PMC-8, iExos 100
ES ED 127, 10" LX200GPS+wedge, Astro-Tech 8" Newt, ETX-90, 60mm no-name guide scope ~ 260mm FL
Polemaster, Orion ST-80 and SAG, ZWO 290MM, D5300 astro modified
Nina, Bootcamped Mac Mini control computer, RDP to iMAC
110 amp hour lead acid deep discharge battery for field power
Electrical Engineer, Retired


Re: Astrophotography Done with the iEXOS-100, EXOS 2, and G11 Post your Pictures and Details! Lets Show What These Mounts Can Do. #G11 #astrophotography #iEXOS-100 #EXOS2

Ian Morison
 

Hi Wade,
   That is really excellent!  Was it taken from a dark location?

Something for me to aspire to.

Cheers,

Ian


On Saturday, October 3, 2020, Wade Prunty <wadeprunty@...> wrote:
Processed this after Gary Palmers's demo today.

.

Target: Messier 31, The Andromeda Galaxy

Imaged and Processed by Wade Prunty with:
William Optics SpaceCat 51 APO Telescope

Explore Scientific iEXOS-100 Mount
Canon T3i DSLR
Optolong L-Pro Filter
William Optics UniGuide Scope
ZWO ASI120MM-S
ZWO ASIAIR Pro
95 x 300 Second Exposures
PixInsight
Topaz Labs AI Suite
--
Explore Scientific iEXOS-100
Explore Scientific EXOS2 PMC-8
Explore Scientific AR102
Celestron RASA 8
William Optics SpaceCat 51 APO
ZWO ASI294MM Pro
ZWO ASI183MM Pro
ZWO ASI533MC Pro
Canon 5D, T3i (Both Astro Mods)
William Optics UniGuide
ZWO ASI120MM-S
ZWO ASIAIR Pro


Re: Astrophotography Done with the iEXOS-100, EXOS 2, and G11 Post your Pictures and Details! Lets Show What These Mounts Can Do. #G11 #astrophotography #iEXOS-100 #EXOS2

Wade Prunty
 

Processed this after Gary Palmers's demo today.

.

Target: Messier 31, The Andromeda Galaxy

Imaged and Processed by Wade Prunty with:
William Optics SpaceCat 51 APO Telescope

Explore Scientific iEXOS-100 Mount
Canon T3i DSLR
Optolong L-Pro Filter
William Optics UniGuide Scope
ZWO ASI120MM-S
ZWO ASIAIR Pro
95 x 300 Second Exposures
PixInsight
Topaz Labs AI Suite
--
Explore Scientific iEXOS-100
Explore Scientific EXOS2 PMC-8
Explore Scientific AR102
Celestron RASA 8
William Optics SpaceCat 51 APO
ZWO ASI294MM Pro
ZWO ASI183MM Pro
ZWO ASI533MC Pro
Canon 5D, T3i (Both Astro Mods)
William Optics UniGuide
ZWO ASI120MM-S
ZWO ASIAIR Pro


Re: Possible defective unit #iEXOS-100 #TECHNICAL

Mario
 

Hi Wes, I'm using an ASIAir Pro in both Sidereal and Lunar tracking mode with the iExos connected via serial cable.
I'm not sure if that makes a difference or what others have been using when experiencing the problem. I could try and use Explorestars to see if the problem exists.

Regards,

Mario


On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 9:13 PM Wes Mcdonald <wesmcd6@...> wrote:
Mario

Are you using explorestars?

If so are you in P or T mode?

Wes

--
Wes, Southport NC
EXos2-GT PMC-8, iExos 100
ES ED 127, 10" LX200GPS+wedge, Astro-Tech 8" Newt, ETX-90, 60mm no-name guide scope ~ 260mm FL
Polemaster, Orion ST-80 and SAG, ZWO 290MM, D5300 astro modified
Nina, Bootcamped Mac Mini control computer, RDP to iMAC
110 amp hour lead acid deep discharge battery for field power
Electrical Engineer, Retired


--
Regards,

Mario
Streetsville, Ontario

Mounts: iExos 100, Skyguider Pro
Scopes/Lenses: Main/Orion 80mm, DSLR/Tamron 18-400mm lens, guide/ZWO-340A
Computer: ASIAir
Cameras: Canon T2i DSLR, ZWO120MM (guide)
Utility Software: iPolar (for Skyguider polar alignment), iCap, Explorestars, Canon EOS Utility
Image Processing Software: Photoshop


Re: Astrophotography Done with the iEXOS-100, EXOS 2, and G11 Post your Pictures and Details! Lets Show What These Mounts Can Do. #G11 #astrophotography #iEXOS-100 #EXOS2

Wes Mcdonald
 

Jdavis

Man that looks danged good.   Dust lanes, core, disc.  Nice.

Wes

--
Wes, Southport NC
EXos2-GT PMC-8, iExos 100
ES ED 127, 10" LX200GPS+wedge, Astro-Tech 8" Newt, ETX-90, 60mm no-name guide scope ~ 260mm FL
Polemaster, Orion ST-80 and SAG, ZWO 290MM, D5300 astro modified
Nina, Bootcamped Mac Mini control computer, RDP to iMAC
110 amp hour lead acid deep discharge battery for field power
Electrical Engineer, Retired


Re: Possible defective unit #iEXOS-100 #TECHNICAL

Wes Mcdonald
 

Mario

Are you using explorestars?

If so are you in P or T mode?

Wes

--
Wes, Southport NC
EXos2-GT PMC-8, iExos 100
ES ED 127, 10" LX200GPS+wedge, Astro-Tech 8" Newt, ETX-90, 60mm no-name guide scope ~ 260mm FL
Polemaster, Orion ST-80 and SAG, ZWO 290MM, D5300 astro modified
Nina, Bootcamped Mac Mini control computer, RDP to iMAC
110 amp hour lead acid deep discharge battery for field power
Electrical Engineer, Retired


Re: Possible defective unit #iEXOS-100 #TECHNICAL

Mario
 

Quick note, some others seem to be observing this same behaviour:

Appears here with lunar observation...link
This view of the iExos internals that seem to oscillate in time to what is being observed through the scope...link
Not sure if the second video is related bu seems to be....line the motor is pausing then 'catching up'

I would expect this motion to be smoothly tracking...not oscillating...


Regards,

Mario









On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 8:58 PM Mario via groups.io <mario1546=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Paul, 

I was taking video of the moon and again noticed the oscillation you observed.
Again, this doesn't seem to be an issue with stars or DSO's but very noticeable with lunar or planetary observation.
Note, the tracking seems ok, the moon stays in frame and returns to essentially to the same spot after each oscillation.

I appreciate the explanations of how the motors are in constant motion....but how do we make this go away? 

Link to video here.

Regards,

Mario

On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 2:28 PM Paul via groups.io <paulw617=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello Wes and Harry,

Thank you for the quick response and for putting my mind at ease.

Paul


--
Regards,

Mario
Streetsville, Ontario

Mounts: iExos 100, Skyguider Pro
Scopes/Lenses: Main/Orion 80mm, DSLR/Tamron 18-400mm lens, guide/ZWO-340A
Computer: ASIAir
Cameras: Canon T2i DSLR, ZWO120MM (guide)
Utility Software: iPolar (for Skyguider polar alignment), iCap, Explorestars, Canon EOS Utility
Image Processing Software: Photoshop


--
Regards,

Mario
Streetsville, Ontario

Mounts: iExos 100, Skyguider Pro
Scopes/Lenses: Main/Orion 80mm, DSLR/Tamron 18-400mm lens, guide/ZWO-340A
Computer: ASIAir
Cameras: Canon T2i DSLR, ZWO120MM (guide)
Utility Software: iPolar (for Skyguider polar alignment), iCap, Explorestars, Canon EOS Utility
Image Processing Software: Photoshop


Re: Possible defective unit #iEXOS-100 #TECHNICAL

Mario
 

Hi Paul, 

I was taking video of the moon and again noticed the oscillation you observed.
Again, this doesn't seem to be an issue with stars or DSO's but very noticeable with lunar or planetary observation.
Note, the tracking seems ok, the moon stays in frame and returns to essentially to the same spot after each oscillation.

I appreciate the explanations of how the motors are in constant motion....but how do we make this go away? 

Link to video here.

Regards,

Mario

On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 2:28 PM Paul via groups.io <paulw617=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello Wes and Harry,

Thank you for the quick response and for putting my mind at ease.

Paul


--
Regards,

Mario
Streetsville, Ontario

Mounts: iExos 100, Skyguider Pro
Scopes/Lenses: Main/Orion 80mm, DSLR/Tamron 18-400mm lens, guide/ZWO-340A
Computer: ASIAir
Cameras: Canon T2i DSLR, ZWO120MM (guide)
Utility Software: iPolar (for Skyguider polar alignment), iCap, Explorestars, Canon EOS Utility
Image Processing Software: Photoshop


locked Re: #iEXOS-100 crooked pulley gear #iEXOS-100

salvo.semi@...
 

the iexos-100 is really a fantastic mount and if you manage to fit the snap before the flexion it follows really well but this is a big problem, the flexion writes with times of 10sec., with the replacement of the defective parts it becomes really perfect, it is really a pity and above all a nuisance.


locked Re: #iEXOS-100 crooked pulley gear #iEXOS-100

salvo.semi@...
 

On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 01:17 AM, Jerry Hubbell - Explore Scientific VP Engineering wrote:
Based on what I saw in the video, the end cap of the small pulley seems to be wobbling as you say, but again, we need to do a measurement to see if the pulley is actually not concentric on the shaft. The only way to do that is to use PHD2 and record a guide log to evaluate the true performance. Do you have a guide log I can evaluate?
I don't have a guide tube but the worst thing is that the worm also oscillates more than the pulley, if you see the video well you can see and that's what creates the oscillation of everything, in the case of the pulley the pinion is straight in the case of the screw endless is that which is wrong.
what you need is an endless drive and a straight pulley, in DEC it's all straight.


Re: Astrophotography Done with the iEXOS-100, EXOS 2, and G11 Post your Pictures and Details! Lets Show What These Mounts Can Do. #G11 #astrophotography #iEXOS-100 #EXOS2

jdavis1278@...
 

(I am very new to the hobby, please be gentle everyone, lol)
Andromeda Galaxy 09.25.2020

64 30second subs (32min exposure) ISO1600

Meade ETX80 (stripped OTA, my wife purchased it for me years ago, and I've since stripped it from the alt/az yoke, figuring I'd utilize it whilst saving up for a proper APO)

Canon T100

Explore Scientific iExos 100


locked Re: #iEXOS-100 crooked pulley gear #iEXOS-100

Jerry Hubbell - Explore Scientific VP Engineering
 

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 03:07 PM, <salvo.semi@...> wrote:
yes it would be a solution but i don't like having a defective mount, i paid for a working mount and not working only partially.
Hi Salvo,

Based on what I saw in the video, the end cap of the small pulley seems to be wobbling as you say, but again, we need to do a measurement to see if the pulley is actually not concentric on the shaft. The only way to do that is to use PHD2 and record a guide log to evaluate the true performance. Do you have a guide log I can evaluate?

Thanks
 
--
Jerry Hubbell
Vice President of Engineering

Explore Scientific, LLC.
jrh at explorescientific.com

www.explorescientificusa.com
1010 S. 48th Street
Springdale, AR 72762
1-866-252-3811

Author: Scientific Astrophotography: How Amateurs Can Generate and Use Professional Imaging Data
             Remote Observatories for Amateur Astronomers: Using High-Powered Telescopes From Home


Mark Slade Remote Observatory (MSRO) IAU MPC W54 Equipment
Wilderness, VA
Mounts
: ES PMC-Eight G11 + Telescope Drive Master (TDM)
Scopes: ES 165 FPL-53 ED APO CF, ES 102 FCD100 ED APO CF
Cameras:  QHY174M-GPS + FW, QHY163C
Misc: 3-inch 0.7x Focal Reducer Field Flattener, Filters: Luminance,
Red, V-band Photometric, Diffuser, 200 lpmm Spectral Grating

Software: MaxIm DL 6, Cartes du Ciel, Astrometrica, AstroImageJ, AutoStakkert!


locked Re: #iEXOS-100 crooked pulley gear #iEXOS-100

salvo.semi@...
 

yes it would be a solution but i don't like having a defective mount, i paid for a working mount and not working only partially.


locked Re: #iEXOS-100 crooked pulley gear #iEXOS-100

Jerry Hubbell - Explore Scientific VP Engineering
 

Hi Salvo,

I would caution you to not jump to conclusions as the only way to really understand the impact of the pulley, which we have investigated a lot, is to get a guide log from your system. By analyzing the log we can see if the expected pulley related PE shows up in the periodogram at 133 seconds and 13.3 seconds. I can guarantee you that the mount is not defective in show PE in unguided images. It is not related to the pulley but the worm. Until we have a guide log that corrects the mounts tracking rate, I would not assume that your problem is related to the pulley.

The mount is not defective when displaying its native PE. These mounts must be used with an auto guider to get the best performance while imaging.
--
Jerry Hubbell
Vice President of Engineering

Explore Scientific, LLC.
jrh at explorescientific.com

www.explorescientificusa.com
1010 S. 48th Street
Springdale, AR 72762
1-866-252-3811

Author: Scientific Astrophotography: How Amateurs Can Generate and Use Professional Imaging Data
             Remote Observatories for Amateur Astronomers: Using High-Powered Telescopes From Home


Mark Slade Remote Observatory (MSRO) IAU MPC W54 Equipment
Wilderness, VA
Mounts
: ES PMC-Eight G11 + Telescope Drive Master (TDM)
Scopes: ES 165 FPL-53 ED APO CF, ES 102 FCD100 ED APO CF
Cameras:  QHY174M-GPS + FW, QHY163C
Misc: 3-inch 0.7x Focal Reducer Field Flattener, Filters: Luminance,
Red, V-band Photometric, Diffuser, 200 lpmm Spectral Grating

Software: MaxIm DL 6, Cartes du Ciel, Astrometrica, AstroImageJ, AutoStakkert!


locked Re: #iEXOS-100 crooked pulley gear #iEXOS-100

salvo.semi@...
 

yes it would be a solution but i don't like having a defective mount, i paid for a working mount and not working only partially.

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