|
Re: Astrophotography Done with the iEXOS-100, EXOS 2, and G11 Post your Pictures and Details! Lets Show What These Mounts Can Do.
#G11
#astrophotography
#iEXOS-100
#EXOS2
On 4 Oct 2020, at 21:49, Wes Mcdonald <wesmcd6@...> wrote:
-- Michael Whitaker Wakefield, UK. MOUNTS. Exos-2 PMC Eight.. SCOPE: RVO Horizon 72ed. CAMERA: Not Applicable. SOFTWARE: Just iPad at moment.
|
|
|
|
Re: Astrophotography Done with the iEXOS-100, EXOS 2, and G11 Post your Pictures and Details! Lets Show What These Mounts Can Do.
#G11
#astrophotography
#iEXOS-100
#EXOS2
Wes Mcdonald
Nice Mick! Get a few more to bring out the running man. Why it all blue? Wes.
On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 4:26 PM Mick Whitaker <mwhitaker285@...> wrote:
--
Wes, Southport NC EXos2-GT PMC-8, iExos 100 ES ED 127, 10" LX200GPS+wedge, Astro-Tech 8" Newt, ETX-90, 60mm no-name guide scope ~ 260mm FL Polemaster, Orion ST-80 and SAG, ZWO 290MM, D5300 astro modified Nina, Bootcamped Mac Mini control computer, RDP to iMAC 110 amp hour lead acid deep discharge battery for field power Electrical Engineer, Retired
|
|
|
|
Re: Astrophotography Done with the iEXOS-100, EXOS 2, and G11 Post your Pictures and Details! Lets Show What These Mounts Can Do.
#G11
#astrophotography
#iEXOS-100
#EXOS2
M42.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 3 Oct 2020, at 18:11, Wade Prunty <wadeprunty@...> wrote:
-- Michael Whitaker Wakefield, UK. MOUNTS. Exos-2 PMC Eight.. SCOPE: RVO Horizon 72ed. CAMERA: Not Applicable. SOFTWARE: Just iPad at moment.
|
|
|
|
Re: Possible defective unit
#iEXOS-100
#TECHNICAL
James Ball
I don't think the amount of weight factors in too much as I first noticed the motion using the ETX90 where two counter weights at the very top of the bar will balance it.
The second video Mario posted in his second post showing an allen wrench in the pulley is what I notice when just watching the small pulley, a stop start motion at the 1.3 second interval. It never bothered me as I thought it was just the electronics sending pulses to move the motor in steps as it tracks, instead of a steady movement like you find in the old C8 synchro motors. It definitely though does correspond to the sound of the electronics, the pulsing hiss that is heard as it is tracking. -- James Ball Dawson Springs, Ky Mounts: iEXOS-100 Scopes: Meade ETX90RA(deforked now) Sky Watcher 150MCT Camera: ZWO ASI 120MC-S Software: Explore Stars Android, ASCOM, Stellarium Scope, Stellarium, AS!3, SharpCap, RegiStax6.
|
|
|
|
Re: Possible defective unit
#iEXOS-100
#TECHNICAL
I have been doing planetary imaging on my exos2 and I experience the same rocking motion. It caught my attention when I noticed the sound of my motors had a rhythm that matched the rocking motion on the video. I am using an 8” SCT (2000mm FL) with a 2x Barlow. I also use the ASIAIR Pro.
|
|
|
|
Re: New EXOS2 owner - DEC axis Slew issue
#EXOS2
Paul Mogg
Thank you so much Rick and W.F.! That of course worked. Having no experience with an equatorial mount it made sense to me that locking the clutches would stop the motors from moving the telescope, as it stops me from moving it, .... not the other way around. Amazing!
|
|
|
|
Re: New EXOS2 owner - DEC axis Slew issue
#EXOS2
both clutches are looseThe clutches should not be loose in order to drive the mount with the motors. Loose clutches are so you can move the move the mount by hand for balancing, etc. without the motors being engaged. -- Mount: EXPLORE SCIENTIFIC EXOS2-GT EQUATORIAL MOUNT WITH PMC-EIGHT GOTO SYSTEM Scope: ED115 FPL53 115MM F/5.5 AIR-SPACED TRIPLET ED APO REFRACTOR IN CARBON FIBER
|
|
|
|
Re: New EXOS2 owner - DEC axis Slew issue
#EXOS2
W.F.
Hello Paul,
the clutches must be lockt otherwise the motor runs and dont move the axis. greetings Wolfgang.
|
|
|
|
New EXOS2 owner - DEC axis Slew issue
#EXOS2
Paul Mogg
HI folks, I just received my EOS2 mount and am trying to test it indoors due to adverse weather. I'm a complete beginner but learning fast.
My issue is that the DEC axis only seems able to slew a few degrees in either direction ( maybe 5 or 10 ) using ExploreStars in manual mode, before it stops and refuses to go any further. The RA axis seems to slew fine. Can anyone give me a clue as to why this might be? Do I have a faulty mount? I'm using the compass rose on ExploreStars (Android) to do this manually. When I try to slew automatically to an object the mount appears to be having the same problem , again on the DEC axis only. I also tried entering ALT / AZ numbers manually with similar results. Before you ask, I have carefully balanced my scope ( a 200 / 1000 Newtonian ) according to the instructions, both clutches are loose, and I've selected the correct mount in the software. I've also entered correct LAT/LONG in the App using GPS, and have it in a rough polar aligned position facing north. I also tried this under Explorstars Windows version with the same results, which all seems to point to a physical problem with the mount. Any clues as to what's going on gratefully received. Many thanks, P.S. I also notice that the Star Alignment buttons are different under the Android version of ExploreStars compared to the Windows version, with an "Enter" button that is different and doesn't jibe with any written instructions that I can find.
|
|
|
|
Re: Possible defective unit
#iEXOS-100
#TECHNICAL
Mario
First off, thank you for that detailed analysis Jerry, appreciated. The old post was an interesting read, I appreciate the difficulty of making changes to the chip and it sounds like increasing the current to the motor might be an option. The first video I attached was made with a Meade LX65 Cassegrain @ 1900mmFL x 127mm. I think I used a 25mm eyepiece and my trusty Celestron Neximage CCD at 720x480 @ 25 FPS. I may have used my 2x doubler but I don't recall for sure, sorry. The iexos is on the latest firmware. Although I was managing the mount via the ASIAir, the camera was plugged directly into my laptop. I recall switching the ASIAir tracking mode between Sidereal and Lunar tracking to see if the issue would go away and it was present in both modes. I can try and provide more information - just let me know what you need. I agree with your comments; I don't notice the oscillation issue when imaging with my wider-field Orion 80x400mm refractor. The scope is over 30 years old and I'm still getting nice round stars and 2-3min guided exposures using the iExos. I could probably push it even longer and have similar success. To your point, I only notice the issue with the higher focal length LX65, narrower field of view with planetary/lunar viewing/video. The LX65 is about 6.2Lbs and I needed both counter-weights almost fully extended to balance the mount. I feel confident the balance was fairly good but find there's some friction with the mount when trying to balance so it's as good as I could get it. I also thought that the increased mass/inertia of the bigger scope and perhaps slight off-balance configuration might contribute to making a small issue have a bigger than normal impact visually. My goal for that evening was to try and learn how to stack video to produce some nice pictures of the moon and perhaps Jupiter using this video-stacking technique when the oscillation became apparent. We had already started this thread when I received the LX65 so I wasn't too worried if the issue should appear as others had indicated I could stack/process the issue away. However, we were just viewing the Moon and Jupiter (and for that the long FL and magnification is required) and people were looking through the eyepiece and amazed at the clarity but then looked up and said, 'Why's it wobbling?' I felt a little silly trying to explain it - lol. It's like trying to explain why the radio doesn't work on your brand-new Ferrari - lol. It still goes really fast but it's still annoying :) I get this hobby is technical and has a learning curve and requires practice and tinkering - that's kinda why I like it. But I'm hoping we can get this sorted out. @ Wes, i'm going to do some digging and see if I can determine what's driving the ASIAir (ASCOM or other) and what exactly happens between Sidereal and Lunar tracking - I don't see a 'Point' mode for the ASIAir. ZWO just released a new firmware version with a video mode so I'll see if this issue persists.
I'm aware we don't want to turn this into a third-party discussion but it seems others have noticed the issue with different non-ASI configurations.
Jerry, if there's a way to increase the current to the mount to minimize this, then I'm willing to try. Previous comments about power consumption when on battery noted. Regards, Mario
On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 11:05 AM Jerry Hubbell - Explore Scientific VP Engineering <jrh@...> wrote: On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 09:11 PM, Mario wrote: --
Regards, Mario Streetsville, Ontario Mounts: iExos 100, Skyguider Pro Scopes/Lenses: Main/Orion 80mm, DSLR/Tamron 18-400mm lens, guide/ZWO-340A Computer: ASIAir Cameras: Canon T2i DSLR, ZWO120MM (guide) Utility Software: iPolar (for Skyguider polar alignment), iCap, Explorestars, Canon EOS Utility Image Processing Software: Photoshop 
|
|
|
|
Re: Astrophotography Done with the iEXOS-100, EXOS 2, and G11 Post your Pictures and Details! Lets Show What These Mounts Can Do.
#G11
#astrophotography
#iEXOS-100
#EXOS2
Thanks Ian!
All of my images are taken in Bortle 9 skies next to one of the largest airports in the US. -- Explore Scientific iEXOS-100 Explore Scientific EXOS2 PMC-8 Explore Scientific AR102 Celestron RASA 8 William Optics SpaceCat 51 APO ZWO ASI294MM Pro ZWO ASI183MM Pro ZWO ASI533MC Pro Canon 5D, T3i (Both Astro Mods) William Optics UniGuide ZWO ASI120MM-S ZWO ASIAIR Pro
|
|
|
|
Re: Possible defective unit
#iEXOS-100
#TECHNICAL
On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 09:11 PM, Mario wrote:
Quick note, some others seem to be observing this same behaviour:Hi Mario, There is a documented 1.3 second oscillation in the motor driver chip which I have talked about previously ( https://espmc-eight.groups.io/g/MAIN/message/3894 ) as some of our customers identified on the G11. We identified this issue about 2 years ago but the magnitude of the problem is typically < 0.5 arc-second. In fact it has been demonstrated to be smaller than that as some users have reported an total RA guiding error ~ 0.5 arc-second including scintillation effects during long exposure imaging. This behavior does not affect long exposure imaging, nor lunar/planetary imaging at long focal lengths as the stacking software can manage the small amount of "jitter" caused by the motor driver. The only real observing that was impacted was visual observing at very high focal lengths typical when observing Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, etc. Focal lengths of > 2500 mm when visually observing these planets were impacted. At the time of discovery, after some investigation, we found that an increase in the motor current on the G11 helped to reduce this 1.3 second "jitter" significantly, although we also found that it depended on the equipment load and could be exacerbated by having weight at long moment arms which increased the inertial load. Based on your video, I made some measurements and assumed the following: Video is a 1080p resolution image The full width of the moon would effectively stretch the full width of the frame if centered The width of the moon is 2160 km and 30 arc-minutes (1800 arc-second) I measured the motion of the video using the crater Hell which is 33 km wide I found that the oscillation (peak to peak) was about 1/2 the width of crater Hell, or about 15 km The pixel scale for the image was about 2 km per pixel (2160/1080) or about 1.7 arc-seconds/pixel (1800/1080) Based on this, the oscillation is equal to about (15 km / 2 km) * 1.7 arc-seconds which equals 12 arc-seconds peak to peak. This is equal to about 2 arc-seconds RMS which is about 4 times what we would expect based on our previous experience. It appears that there is something in your equipment configuration that could be aggravating the appearance of this tiny oscillation, perhaps the total load or how it is mounted. If you could give me some details in that regard I would appreciate it. Also, it might be possible to increase the motor current setting to help mitigate this issue and reduce the magnitude of the oscillation. Again, it is important to realize that this motion is just one component of the motion you will see when observing the moon or planets at a large focal length either through the eyepiece or via live video. There is the natural drift in Declination, there is the local seeing conditions which can cause the motion to be at least the same magnitude or even more than what you are seeing here. Thanks for your report Mario. -- Jerry Hubbell Vice President of Engineering Explore Scientific, LLC. jrh at explorescientific.com www.explorescientificusa.com 1010 S. 48th Street Springdale, AR 72762 1-866-252-3811 Author: Scientific Astrophotography: How Amateurs Can Generate and Use Professional Imaging Data Remote Observatories for Amateur Astronomers: Using High-Powered Telescopes From Home Mark Slade Remote Observatory (MSRO) IAU MPC W54 Equipment Wilderness, VA Mounts: ES PMC-Eight G11 + Telescope Drive Master (TDM) Scopes: ES 165 FPL-53 ED APO CF, ES 102 FCD100 ED APO CF Cameras: QHY174M-GPS + FW, QHY163C Misc: 3-inch 0.7x Focal Reducer Field Flattener, Filters: Luminance, Red, V-band Photometric, Diffuser, 200 lpmm Spectral Grating Software: MaxIm DL 6, Cartes du Ciel, Astrometrica, AstroImageJ, AutoStakkert!
|
|
|
|
Re: Possible defective unit
#iEXOS-100
#TECHNICAL
James Ball
Mine does the same thing whether it is using ExploreStars on the Android tablet or Ascom through a wired connection. With the motor cover removed it will pulse like the second video as soon as it is unparked. The pulse in the gears is in perfect time with the pulse sound heard from the electronics, just like the sound in the video Jennifer posted of the controller on her G8.
With a 700mm FL scope and 25mm eyepiece you can't really see it, but with a 2000mm FL scope and 10mm eyepiece it is very evident. It is definitely a start/stop motion in the drive motor. Could Ascom be using the Point mode instead of Tracking mode for some reason? As for the photography, it doesn't hurt the quality of the images when stacking an .avi file for planetary/lunar it might even help average out any dust specs on the sensor window. I do think it is part of the problem when trying to get something like SharpCap Object Tracking to calibrate on high magnification work on planets. I am not sure how to calculate the amplitude of the motion from the video clip, but I would imagine it is in the arc second or sub arc second range, which is probably not even noticeable in a normal guide scope used for AP. For reference I use ASCOM 6.4 SP1-6.4.1.2695, PMC-Eight ASCOM driver revised 2019.01.07 Release Any CPU, SharpCap version 3.2.6392.0 7/28/2020, CdC Version 4.3 beta-4178-2b5ac26 2020/09/28 04:07:59 or current version of Explore Stars for Android and current newest firmware for the mount. -- James Ball Dawson Springs, Ky Mounts: iEXOS-100 Scopes: Meade ETX90RA(deforked now) Sky Watcher 150MCT Camera: ZWO ASI 120MC-S Software: Explore Stars Android, ASCOM, Stellarium Scope, Stellarium, AS!3, SharpCap, RegiStax6.
|
|
|
|
Re: Astrophotography Done with the iEXOS-100, EXOS 2, and G11 Post your Pictures and Details! Lets Show What These Mounts Can Do.
#G11
#astrophotography
#iEXOS-100
#EXOS2
Mario
Beautiful Wade!
On Sat., Oct. 3, 2020, 3:02 a.m. Wade Prunty, <wadeprunty@...> wrote: Processed this after Gary Palmers's demo today. --
Regards, Mario Streetsville, Ontario Mounts: iExos 100, Skyguider Pro Scopes/Lenses: Main/Orion 80mm, DSLR/Tamron 18-400mm lens, guide/ZWO-340A Computer: ASIAir Cameras: Canon T2i DSLR, ZWO120MM (guide) Utility Software: iPolar (for Skyguider polar alignment), iCap, Explorestars, Canon EOS Utility Image Processing Software: Photoshop
|
|
|
|
Re: Possible defective unit
#iEXOS-100
#TECHNICAL
Wes Mcdonald
Mario
What does the asiair use to drive the pmc8? Does it use the Es ascom driver? Surging during lunar viewing makes no sense relative to the pmc8. If the moon is moving in steps it is because the mount is being driven in steps. This is how explorestars in Point mode does it. But when you are using the ES driver and ascom the mount tracks smoothly at sidereal rate. No surging. I believe you stated the surging is not present for stars. In fact we all know it is not as our photos look great. I suggest to you the issue is with how the asiair is driving the mount. Wes -- Wes, Southport NC EXos2-GT PMC-8, iExos 100 ES ED 127, 10" LX200GPS+wedge, Astro-Tech 8" Newt, ETX-90, 60mm no-name guide scope ~ 260mm FL Polemaster, Orion ST-80 and SAG, ZWO 290MM, D5300 astro modified Nina, Bootcamped Mac Mini control computer, RDP to iMAC 110 amp hour lead acid deep discharge battery for field power Electrical Engineer, Retired
|
|
|
|
Re: Astrophotography Done with the iEXOS-100, EXOS 2, and G11 Post your Pictures and Details! Lets Show What These Mounts Can Do.
#G11
#astrophotography
#iEXOS-100
#EXOS2
Wes Mcdonald
Nice wade
Wes
-- Wes, Southport NC EXos2-GT PMC-8, iExos 100 ES ED 127, 10" LX200GPS+wedge, Astro-Tech 8" Newt, ETX-90, 60mm no-name guide scope ~ 260mm FL Polemaster, Orion ST-80 and SAG, ZWO 290MM, D5300 astro modified Nina, Bootcamped Mac Mini control computer, RDP to iMAC 110 amp hour lead acid deep discharge battery for field power Electrical Engineer, Retired
|
|
|
|
Re: Astrophotography Done with the iEXOS-100, EXOS 2, and G11 Post your Pictures and Details! Lets Show What These Mounts Can Do.
#G11
#astrophotography
#iEXOS-100
#EXOS2
Ian Morison
Hi Wade,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
That is really excellent! Was it taken from a dark location? Something for me to aspire to. Cheers, Ian
On Saturday, October 3, 2020, Wade Prunty <wadeprunty@...> wrote: Processed this after Gary Palmers's demo today.
|
|
|
|
Re: Astrophotography Done with the iEXOS-100, EXOS 2, and G11 Post your Pictures and Details! Lets Show What These Mounts Can Do.
#G11
#astrophotography
#iEXOS-100
#EXOS2
Processed this after Gary Palmers's demo today.
. Target: Messier 31, The Andromeda GalaxyImaged and Processed by Wade Prunty with:William Optics SpaceCat 51 APO Telescope Explore Scientific iEXOS-100 Mount Canon T3i DSLR Optolong L-Pro Filter William Optics UniGuide Scope ZWO ASI120MM-S ZWO ASIAIR Pro 95 x 300 Second Exposures PixInsight Topaz Labs AI Suite -- Explore Scientific iEXOS-100 Explore Scientific EXOS2 PMC-8 Explore Scientific AR102 Celestron RASA 8 William Optics SpaceCat 51 APO ZWO ASI294MM Pro ZWO ASI183MM Pro ZWO ASI533MC Pro Canon 5D, T3i (Both Astro Mods) William Optics UniGuide ZWO ASI120MM-S ZWO ASIAIR Pro
|
|
|
|
Re: Possible defective unit
#iEXOS-100
#TECHNICAL
Mario
Hi Wes, I'm using an ASIAir Pro in both Sidereal and Lunar tracking mode with the iExos connected via serial cable. I'm not sure if that makes a difference or what others have been using when experiencing the problem. I could try and use Explorestars to see if the problem exists. Regards, Mario
On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 9:13 PM Wes Mcdonald <wesmcd6@...> wrote: Mario --
Regards, Mario Streetsville, Ontario Mounts: iExos 100, Skyguider Pro Scopes/Lenses: Main/Orion 80mm, DSLR/Tamron 18-400mm lens, guide/ZWO-340A Computer: ASIAir Cameras: Canon T2i DSLR, ZWO120MM (guide) Utility Software: iPolar (for Skyguider polar alignment), iCap, Explorestars, Canon EOS Utility Image Processing Software: Photoshop
|
|
|
|
Re: Astrophotography Done with the iEXOS-100, EXOS 2, and G11 Post your Pictures and Details! Lets Show What These Mounts Can Do.
#G11
#astrophotography
#iEXOS-100
#EXOS2
Wes Mcdonald
Jdavis
Man that looks danged good. Dust lanes, core, disc. Nice. Wes
-- Wes, Southport NC EXos2-GT PMC-8, iExos 100 ES ED 127, 10" LX200GPS+wedge, Astro-Tech 8" Newt, ETX-90, 60mm no-name guide scope ~ 260mm FL Polemaster, Orion ST-80 and SAG, ZWO 290MM, D5300 astro modified Nina, Bootcamped Mac Mini control computer, RDP to iMAC 110 amp hour lead acid deep discharge battery for field power Electrical Engineer, Retired
|
|
|
