Expected tracking times *Unguided #EXOS2 #TECHNICAL


Jerry Hubbell - Explore Scientific VP Engineering
 

On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 05:16 PM, Thomas Olson wrote:
Sorry for any confusion. Been staring at the stars too late too often. too tired.

No worries Tom,  I just didn't want those that are new to the PMC-Eight to think that they had to use some other program to manage the DTR, that is unless they are trying to run the PMC-Eight under LINUX INDI, or MacOS INDI. I have tried to make it as easy as possible to connect up and use the PMC-Eight with a computer, but there is a minimal amount of learning that needs to take place when getting into ASCOM and multiple clients and all that jazz.

Thanks
 
--
Jerry Hubbell
Vice President of Engineering

Explore Scientific, LLC.
jrh at explorescientific.com

www.explorescientificusa.com
1010 S. 48th Street
Springdale, AR 72762
1-866-252-3811

Author: Scientific Astrophotography: How Amateurs Can Generate and Use Professional Imaging Data
             Remote Observatories for Amateur Astronomers: Using High-Powered Telescopes From Home


Mark Slade Remote Observatory (MSRO) IAU MPC W54 Equipment
Wilderness, VA
Mounts
: ES PMC-Eight G11 + Telescope Drive Master (TDM)
Scopes: ES 165 FPL-53 ED APO CF, ES 102 FCD100 ED APO CF
Cameras:  QHY174M-GPS + FW, QHY163C
Misc: 3-inch 0.7x Focal Reducer Field Flattener, Filters: Luminance,
Red, V-band Photometric, Diffuser, 200 lpmm Spectral Grating

Software: MaxIm DL 6, Cartes du Ciel, Astrometrica, AstroImageJ, AutoStakkert!


Thomas Olson
 

Thanks Jerry for you further clarification. I probably could word it differently. The point I was leading to is that the DTR line has to be GROUND level for the PMC8 to work and one way to ensure that regardless of brand of chips used. And that is most likely the issue with various adapters is if support DTR and have it in the correcct polarity.
Sorry for any confusion. Been staring at the stars too late too often. too tired.
Tom


On 6/21/19 8:38 AM, Jerry Hubbell - Explore Scientific VP Engineering wrote:
On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 01:17 AM, Thomas Olson wrote:
Hi Thomas

I want to clarify your statement about the DTR. The standard default settings for the FTDI cables and adapters that are recommended work out of the box with the PMC-Eight when communicating using the ASCOM driver and also when loading the firmware as long as the adapter pinout includes the DTR. Apparently some cables/adapters that have been purchased do not.

I don't want anyone to be confused about this based on what you have experienced using the INDI driver.
Because of peculiarities in the LINUX operating system as discovered by Michael Fulbright, the INDI driver developer, and NOT the PMC-Eight, the DTR line needs to be inverted to allow it to communicate with the INDI driver. 

Also your statement above about using the FTDI chipset is NOT because they provide a utility to invert the DTR signal in general. That is again only specifically for the LINUX INDI platform. I would amend your statement and say it this way:
"The reasons people are using FTDI is because FTDI provides a program tool to invert the DTR line from normal. Its a quark with the parallax DTR configuration used in the PMC8 which gives the LINUX operating system a problem."

Again, I want to reiterate that if anyone with the PMC-Eight purchases a Serial DB9 to USB adapter cable that has been shown to work, it works right out of the box, no need to worry about the DTR signal.
I recommend the Parallax version because it has been certified to work with the processor in the PMC-Eight system. 

Let me know if there are any further questions about this.

Jerry Hubbell
Vice President of Engineering

Explore Scientific, LLC.
jrh at explorescientific.com

www.explorescientificusa.com
1010 S. 48th Street
Springdale, AR 72762
1-866-252-3811

Author: Scientific Astrophotography: How Amateurs Can Generate and Use Professional Imaging Data
             Remote Observatories for Amateur Astronomers: Using High-Powered Telescopes From Home


Mark Slade Remote Observatory (MSRO) IAU MPC W54 Equipment
Wilderness, VA
Mounts
: ES PMC-Eight G11 + Telescope Drive Master (TDM)
Scopes: ES 165 FPL-53 ED APO CF, ES 102 FCD100 ED APO CF
Cameras:  QHY174M-GPS + FW, QHY163C
Misc: 3-inch 0.7x Focal Reducer Field Flattener, Filters: Luminance,
Red, V-band Photometric, Diffuser, 200 lpmm Spectral Grating

Software: MaxIm DL 6, Cartes du Ciel, Astrometrica, AstroImageJ, AutoStakkert!



Wes Mcdonald
 

JB

I believe the pin-out of the cable you have is correct.  So perhaps it is the DTR line.  It should be low.  Jerry, if the DTR line is high, what happens?

Someone else posted his had the DTR line inverted., and he had to correct that, included instructions for setting it in his post.  I believe it was in this thread.

Wes.


--
Wes, Southport NC
PMC-8, ES ED 127, 10" LX200GPS, Astro-Tech 8" Newt, ETX-90
Polemaster, Orion ST-80 and SAG
Electrical Engineer, Retired


JB1983
 
Edited

This is one of the other options available 

https://www.amazon.ca/UGREEN-Converter-Adapter-Prolific-Chipset/dp/B00QUZY4UG/ref=mp_s_a_1_12?keywords=ftdi+usb+to+rs232&qid=1561134133&s=gateway&sprefix=ftdi&sr=8-12

Edit     Just released this has the prolific chipset. Think I seen someplace that these arent very good


JB1983
 

Thanks very much for the input Jerry.  I guess I'm kind of at a loss as to why the cable isnt working then.   Its using the latest FTDI drivers, computer recognizes it when its plugged in to USB.    Tried different USB ports, resetting the pmc8 and computer.   Is it possible that even though the drivers are loaded correctly and the computer detects it that it may just straight up be a faulty cable or chipset?

I found another cable with the same description by a different company on Amazon, I may order that one.


Jerry Hubbell - Explore Scientific VP Engineering
 

As in my previous post,  there is no reason to get "wrapped around the axle" about the DTR pinout other than to make sure the adapter includes it.  The description of this cable says that all the standard RS232 signals are handled. This cable should work fine based on it's description.

"Gold Plated USB 2.0 to RS232 Male DB9 Serial Cable, Connect Serial DB9(9 PIN) Devices such as a modem to a USB port on your computer. Installed as a standard Windows COM ports, Full RS-232 modem control signals, RS-232 data signals; TxD, RxD, RTS, CTS, DSR, DTR, DCD, RI, GND "
--
Jerry Hubbell
Vice President of Engineering

Explore Scientific, LLC.
jrh at explorescientific.com

www.explorescientificusa.com
1010 S. 48th Street
Springdale, AR 72762
1-866-252-3811

Author: Scientific Astrophotography: How Amateurs Can Generate and Use Professional Imaging Data
             Remote Observatories for Amateur Astronomers: Using High-Powered Telescopes From Home


Mark Slade Remote Observatory (MSRO) IAU MPC W54 Equipment
Wilderness, VA
Mounts
: ES PMC-Eight G11 + Telescope Drive Master (TDM)
Scopes: ES 165 FPL-53 ED APO CF, ES 102 FCD100 ED APO CF
Cameras:  QHY174M-GPS + FW, QHY163C
Misc: 3-inch 0.7x Focal Reducer Field Flattener, Filters: Luminance,
Red, V-band Photometric, Diffuser, 200 lpmm Spectral Grating

Software: MaxIm DL 6, Cartes du Ciel, Astrometrica, AstroImageJ, AutoStakkert!


Jerry Hubbell - Explore Scientific VP Engineering
 

On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 01:17 AM, Thomas Olson wrote:
Hi Thomas

I want to clarify your statement about the DTR. The standard default settings for the FTDI cables and adapters that are recommended work out of the box with the PMC-Eight when communicating using the ASCOM driver and also when loading the firmware as long as the adapter pinout includes the DTR. Apparently some cables/adapters that have been purchased do not.

I don't want anyone to be confused about this based on what you have experienced using the INDI driver.
Because of peculiarities in the LINUX operating system as discovered by Michael Fulbright, the INDI driver developer, and NOT the PMC-Eight, the DTR line needs to be inverted to allow it to communicate with the INDI driver. 

Also your statement above about using the FTDI chipset is NOT because they provide a utility to invert the DTR signal in general. That is again only specifically for the LINUX INDI platform. I would amend your statement and say it this way:
"The reasons people are using FTDI is because FTDI provides a program tool to invert the DTR line from normal. Its a quark with the parallax DTR configuration used in the PMC8 which gives the LINUX operating system a problem."

Again, I want to reiterate that if anyone with the PMC-Eight purchases a Serial DB9 to USB adapter cable that has been shown to work, it works right out of the box, no need to worry about the DTR signal.
I recommend the Parallax version because it has been certified to work with the processor in the PMC-Eight system. 

Let me know if there are any further questions about this.

Jerry Hubbell
Vice President of Engineering

Explore Scientific, LLC.
jrh at explorescientific.com

www.explorescientificusa.com
1010 S. 48th Street
Springdale, AR 72762
1-866-252-3811

Author: Scientific Astrophotography: How Amateurs Can Generate and Use Professional Imaging Data
             Remote Observatories for Amateur Astronomers: Using High-Powered Telescopes From Home


Mark Slade Remote Observatory (MSRO) IAU MPC W54 Equipment
Wilderness, VA
Mounts
: ES PMC-Eight G11 + Telescope Drive Master (TDM)
Scopes: ES 165 FPL-53 ED APO CF, ES 102 FCD100 ED APO CF
Cameras:  QHY174M-GPS + FW, QHY163C
Misc: 3-inch 0.7x Focal Reducer Field Flattener, Filters: Luminance,
Red, V-band Photometric, Diffuser, 200 lpmm Spectral Grating

Software: MaxIm DL 6, Cartes du Ciel, Astrometrica, AstroImageJ, AutoStakkert!


JB1983
 


Wes Mcdonald
 

JB

Post the cable part number.  Perhaps I can tell from the specs what is what.  Inverted DTR would wack things as would reversed pin out.  

Wes

--
Wes, Southport NC
PMC-8, ES ED 127, 10" LX200GPS, Astro-Tech 8" Newt, ETX-90
Polemaster, Orion ST-80 and SAG
Electrical Engineer, Retired


Thomas Olson
 

The reasons people are using FTDI is because FTDI provides a program tool to invert the DTR line from normal. Its a quark with the parallax DTR configuration used in the PMC8. If you haven't inverted the DTR configuration on you adapter it won't work except to program the firmware.

On the other hand if you want to use any brand USB2 to Serial adapter chip, you only need to be able to disconnect the DTR line from passing throught. You can just make a straight through 9pin female to 9 pin male cable adapter.
Just don't connect the DTR line on the PMC8 side. Instead tie the DTR (pin4) to GND (pin5) on the PMC8 side.


On 6/20/19 9:06 PM, JB1983 wrote:
Tried again, rechecked everyhting and no go.  I'll try and track down a bull modem connector and see if it switching the pins works.  

This cable had great reviews on Amazon and I have seen some where people complained the pins were reverse but thisbwasnt one of them. Hopefully that fixes the issue. I seen another post on the forum where he had gone through a few cables from different brands before he got one that worked.  Wonder if that may because of pin placement as well


JB1983
 

Tried again, rechecked everyhting and no go.  I'll try and track down a bull modem connector and see if it switching the pins works.  

This cable had great reviews on Amazon and I have seen some where people complained the pins were reverse but thisbwasnt one of them. Hopefully that fixes the issue. I seen another post on the forum where he had gone through a few cables from different brands before he got one that worked.  Wonder if that may because of pin placement as well


Wes Mcdonald
 

JB

If it don't work it's gonna be reverse pin out if the connector.....assuming all else is ok.  You'll need a null modem plug

Wes

--
Wes, Southport NC
PMC-8, ES ED 127, 10" LX200GPS, Astro-Tech 8" Newt, ETX-90
Polemaster, Orion ST-80 and SAG
Electrical Engineer, Retired


JB1983
 

I'm gonna give it a whirl in about an hour and see if I can figure it out.   I'm willing to bet it's the cable.  Sounds like most people have issues with cable being the culprit more than anything.  I'll try deleting the drivers and re installing and see if I'm missing anything else 


Jerry Hubbell - Explore Scientific VP Engineering
 

On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 12:15 PM, JB1983 wrote:
I think I just realized that ascom wants 115200 and the default com port parameters default to 9600.  That could very well be the cause of the issue right there.
It doesn't matter what the default BAUD rate is set to on the port driver configuration, the ASCOM driver configures the connection to 115,200 BAUD prior to making the connection. My default is set to 9600 on the port driver also.
 
--
Jerry Hubbell
Vice President of Engineering

Explore Scientific, LLC.
jrh at explorescientific.com

www.explorescientificusa.com
1010 S. 48th Street
Springdale, AR 72762
1-866-252-3811

Author: Scientific Astrophotography: How Amateurs Can Generate and Use Professional Imaging Data
             Remote Observatories for Amateur Astronomers: Using High-Powered Telescopes From Home


Mark Slade Remote Observatory (MSRO) IAU MPC W54 Equipment
Wilderness, VA
Mounts
: ES PMC-Eight G11 + Telescope Drive Master (TDM)
Scopes: ES 165 FPL-53 ED APO CF, ES 102 FCD100 ED APO CF
Cameras:  QHY174M-GPS + FW, QHY163C
Misc: 3-inch 0.7x Focal Reducer Field Flattener, Filters: Luminance,
Red, V-band Photometric, Diffuser, 200 lpmm Spectral Grating

Software: MaxIm DL 6, Cartes du Ciel, Astrometrica, AstroImageJ, AutoStakkert!


JB1983
 

Thanks Robert. You know what, I think I just realized that ascom wants 115200 and the default com port parameters default to 9600.  That could very well be the cause of the issue right there.

Other than the, my driver data looks identical. I'll make sure the rate is set properly tonight and see if it connects. If not, it could very well be the cable. I know that getting a cable with FTDI that actually works can be a hassle in itself.


 

Are the serial port speed, etc. params correct?

Here's a couple of screen shots from Device Manager to confirm.


--
Mounts: ES PMC-8 EXOS2
Scopes: SV 102EDT, ZWO 60/280 Guide
Cameras:  Nikon D5300, Altair GPCAM2-IMX224C
Software: ASCOM, CdC, AstroTortilla, BYN Pro, Sharpcap, PHD2
Computer:  Thinkpad x230, Win7Pro/64


JB1983
 
Edited

So I got my USB hub and serial cable in today and attempted to get things working.

Ascom worked great when using wifi to the module but I had major issues with serial method.

The drivers wouldnt take at first, I realized this when I see the USB com port sitting in other devices in device manager.  I downloaded the latest FTDI drivers and uploaded them manually and got them to work so both the com port and the USB bus converter and both running the latest drivers.

But when I run ascom connection manager and change the connection from wifi to serial, it times out on me and says timeout no received data.

I tried a bunch of stuff including changing com ports and still nothing. As I far as I can tell the drivers are installed correctly but it's not communicating with the pmc 8 module.

Any ideas?  The only other thing I noticed is there was another unknown device but it was an ethernet device and I managed to track down the Atheros drivers for it, I'm sure its unrelated to this issue.

Other than that, I'm stumped.  Ascom tries to connect and timeouts within a few seconds with no recieved data.


Chris Tardif
 

Which is what I do.  You’re right...it’s not HTTPS...that’s my day job. Dare I sniff the wire and watch the traffic? 😊

...maybe later.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Wes Mcdonald
Sent: June 16, 2019 4:24 PM
To: MAIN@ESPMC-Eight.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ESPMC-Eight] Expected tracking times *Unguided

 

Chris

 

Nice drawing!.  Turns out you are correct, APT communicates with Stellarium directly via TCP/IP over the local host, 127.0.0.1:8090.

 

Stellarium also connects to StellariumScope directly via TCP/IP over the local host 127.0.0.1:XXXX where XXXX is ports 10001, 10002, 10003 for slew, sync, and cancel.  So your drawing is correct if amended to add an IP connection between Stellarium and StellariumScope.  Not sure HTTPS is the correct protocol to show on chart.

 

I should note the Stellarium, APT and Stellarium can be running on different computers on your LAN if that is helpful.  It might be for the case where there is a computer on the mount and one in your study.  

 

 

wes

 

 


--
Wes, Southport NC
PMC-8, ES ED 127, 10" LX200GPS, Astro-Tech 8" Newt, ETX-90
Polemaster, Orion ST-80 and SAG
Electrical Engineer, Retired

 


Wes Mcdonald
 

Chris

Nice drawing!.  Turns out you are correct, APT communicates with Stellarium directly via TCP/IP over the local host, 127.0.0.1:8090.

Stellarium also connects to StellariumScope directly via TCP/IP over the local host 127.0.0.1:XXXX where XXXX is ports 10001, 10002, 10003 for slew, sync, and cancel.  So your drawing is correct if amended to add an IP connection between Stellarium and StellariumScope.  Not sure HTTPS is the correct protocol to show on chart.

I should note the Stellarium, APT and Stellarium can be running on different computers on your LAN if that is helpful.  It might be for the case where there is a computer on the mount and one in your study.  


wes



--
Wes, Southport NC
PMC-8, ES ED 127, 10" LX200GPS, Astro-Tech 8" Newt, ETX-90
Polemaster, Orion ST-80 and SAG
Electrical Engineer, Retired


Chris Tardif
 

For my own sanity I had put this together....I think it’s right.   

 

I am becoming a fan of Stellarium.  Yesterday I realized Stellarium doesn’t have to control the scope, it just needs to interact with APT to refine where to point.  ATP can aim the scope just fine.  If the sky ever clears up I’ll give it a try.

 

If anyone wants the Visio file it lives here: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AsK04VcMsrrHjfs6JoQ5MBUUL1LeWA

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 


From: MAIN@ESPMC-Eight.groups.io <MAIN@ESPMC-Eight.groups.io> on behalf of Chris Tardif <christardif@...>
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2019 2:21:16 PM
To: MAIN@ESPMC-Eight.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ESPMC-Eight] Expected tracking times *Unguided
 

I found this video that walks through plate-solving, APT and Stellarium.  It was quite easy to set up.  I have Stellarium running on my main PC in the my office with APT communicating to it from the little PC I use to control the scope.  APT can then aim the scope based data from the plate-solving.

 

....this is quite slick actually

Chris

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: MAIN@ESPMC-Eight.groups.io <MAIN@ESPMC-Eight.groups.io> on behalf of Wes Mcdonald <wesmcd6@...>
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2019 9:20:57 AM
To: MAIN@espmc-eight.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ESPMC-Eight] Expected tracking times *Unguided
 
Chris

Been thinking about stellarium and apt.  There is no doubt the data that gets loaded from stellarium to apt comes through POTH.  Stellarium connects to stellariumscope by sending it's data to an IP address on the local Host to a port number monitored by stellariumscope.  Stellariumscope mediates that data and sends it to poth using ascom methods.   Apt as I recall does not really know about stellarium.  It has a key sequence that reads the scope position.  Apt is connected to poth, only.  Thus it must be sending a position request via poth.   

Having said that, apt performs guiding by employing PHD2 which has been put into server mode.  Thus it has a direct connection to PHD2.  I say this because it proves a point that might illustrate a rule....that it can interface directly. But I don't remember seeing anything about stellarium having a server mode. It certainly does not natively talk ascom (which is why you need stellariumscope as an intermediate piece of bridge sofrware for stellarium to work with ascom).

What I can't remember without going to the software is if apt can get from stellarium a user selected target that the user has not yet Slewed to.  Ascom no doubt would not know what the user was looking at in the stellarium screen...it should just be getting scope position and status via its method calls to the ascom scope driver.  

Wes

--
Wes, Southport NC
PMC-8, ES ED 127, 10" LX200GPS, Astro-Tech 8" Newt, ETX-90
Polemaster, Orion ST-80 and SAG
Electrical Engineer, Retired