Advice on exos2 dec movement. #EXOS2


charles mckowen <Cmckow91@...>
 

I was wondering if anyone knew how to improve movement in the dec. It doesn’t seem smooth and hard to balance. There’s also a slight Hang up when you rotate. Which I think is normal from the design. If anyone can help me out. I would really appreciate it. Thanks 
--
Chuck McKowen
Bortle 3 Mangham/Monroe, La

WO Z61, WO REDCAT 51, ES ED 102, AstroTech 6 Rc, Orion 8 Rc
Celestron onyx 80 edf
Skywatcher eq6 r pro/Exos2 pmc8/ Atlas Eq-g pro
Qhy163c/m
Canon Eos Ra 
EQMod/Poth - APT, Stellarium, Stellarium scope, and PHD2


 


 

Charles,

This is re: DEC guiding?

I touch on this a bit in my tuning doc.  About the best you can do for DEC balance is a bit of camera-heavy bias with a refractor, but that DEC motor on the side will still skew things.  Just as with RA, a bit of DEC weight bias appears to do no harm, and perhaps some good - so no worries.

Basically, less appears to be more where DEC guiding is concerned.  Some folks don't guide DEC at all.  I'm not there, but I have cut my DEC sensitivity back a lot on PHD2.  There was a really interesting thread some time ago about mechanical movement from guide corrections in one axis triggering guide corrections in the other one.  The pattern shows up in a guide graph - one axis corrects and then the other gets busy as well.  They can go back and forth for quite a while.  I had seen that behavior on mine, and reducing DEC sensitivity helped that for me, without doing any measurable harm to my images.

FWIW...

- Bob



On Sat, Feb 6, 2021, at 10:56, charles mckowen wrote:
I was wondering if anyone knew how to improve movement in the dec. It doesn’t seem smooth and hard to balance. There’s also a slight Hang up when you rotate. Which I think is normal from the design. If anyone can help me out. I would really appreciate it. Thanks 
--
Chuck McKowen
Bortle 3 Mangham/Monroe, La

WO Z61, WO REDCAT 51, ES ED 102, AstroTech 6 Rc, Orion 8 Rc
Celestron onyx 80 edf
Skywatcher eq6 r pro/Exos2 pmc8/ Atlas Eq-g pro
Qhy163c/m
Canon Eos Ra 
EQMod/Poth - APT, Stellarium, Stellarium scope, and PHD2

 



--
Mounts: ES PMC-8 EXOS2
Scopes: SV 102EDT, ZWO 60/280 Guide
Cameras:  Nikon D5300, Altair GPCAM2 290M
Software: ASCOM, CdC, AstroTortilla, BYN Pro, Sharpcap, PHD2
Computer:  Thinkpad x230, Win7Pro/64


Jerry Hubbell - Explore Scientific VP Engineering
 

On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 11:32 AM, Robert Hoskin wrote:
Basically, less appears to be more where DEC guiding is concerned. 
Hi Bob,

I agree with you in terms of DEC guiding. In fact I go much further in my assessment. The following may go against the conventional wisdom a little bit and impacts the need for a precise polar alignment. You may already know where I am going with this.

I would say that for less expensive mounts where the quality of the gear train is not in the upper tier, obtaining a near perfect polar alignment with the great tools available including the QHY Polemaster, and others is not the optimum solution. This works great in higher end mounts where the quality is higher because the system can handle the switching from North to South direction of the control pulses to maintain tight control over the DEC position. To tell the truth, with higher end mounts with a near perfect polar alignment, I contend that you should not be guiding in DEC at all unless you are pointing lower on the horizon (< 30 degrees altitude) to correct for refractive tracking errors.

In the case of the lower end mounts, allowing PHD2 to correct excursions in DEC by switching between North and South pulses (which you will need to do with a near perfect polar alignment) in the presence of any amount of gear lash makes things worse. A much better solution is to leave a bit of polar alignment offset so that you can control and mitigate any switching of the pulse-guide direction. You also need to bias the equipment load to be "camera heavy" on the DEC axis so you can ensure a positive/constant worm/wheel contact which minimizes the effect of any gear lash in the system. This will generally result in much better performance for lower end mount systems such as the EXOS 2 and iEXOS 100 PMC-Eight systems. 

This has generally been my experience and also the experience of a lot of customers I have spoken to over the years. IMHO, the advent of these new polar alignment tools over the past few years has ironically made the problem worse for astrophotographer's using lower end equipment as I said above. 

I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this

Thanks
 
--
Jerry Hubbell
Vice President of Engineering

Explore Scientific, LLC.
jrh at explorescientific.com

www.explorescientificusa.com
1010 S. 48th Street
Springdale, AR 72762
1-866-252-3811

Author: Scientific Astrophotography: How Amateurs Can Generate and Use Professional Imaging Data
             Remote Observatories for Amateur Astronomers: Using High-Powered Telescopes From Home


Mark Slade Remote Observatory (MSRO) IAU MPC W54 Equipment
Wilderness, VA
Mounts
: ES PMC-Eight G11 + Telescope Drive Master (TDM)
Scopes: ES 165 FPL-53 ED APO CF, ES 102 FCD100 ED APO CF
Cameras:  QHY174M-GPS + FW, QHY163C
Misc: 3-inch 0.7x Focal Reducer Field Flattener, Filters: Luminance,
Red, V-band Photometric, Diffuser, 200 lpmm Spectral Grating

Software: MaxIm DL 6, Cartes du Ciel, Astrometrica, AstroImageJ, AutoStakkert!


Walter Vinci
 

Hi Jerry,

Your point makes totally sense. Just as a reference point for a new Exos2 owner, what would you consider a good range for polar alignment offset? Anything as large as to avoid field rotation? Any insight from experienced users would be great. As you said, alignment tools like Sharpcap could also used very easily to achieve a desired offset in the alignment. 

Thanks,
Walter

On Feb 6, 2021, at 8:32 PM, Jerry Hubbell - Explore Scientific VP Engineering <jrh@...> wrote:

On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 11:32 AM, Robert Hoskin wrote:
Basically, less appears to be more where DEC guiding is concerned. 
Hi Bob,

I agree with you in terms of DEC guiding. In fact I go much further in my assessment. The following may go against the conventional wisdom a little bit and impacts the need for a precise polar alignment. You may already know where I am going with this.

I would say that for less expensive mounts where the quality of the gear train is not in the upper tier, obtaining a near perfect polar alignment with the great tools available including the QHY Polemaster, and others is not the optimum solution. This works great in higher end mounts where the quality is higher because the system can handle the switching from North to South direction of the control pulses to maintain tight control over the DEC position. To tell the truth, with higher end mounts with a near perfect polar alignment, I contend that you should not be guiding in DEC at all unless you are pointing lower on the horizon (< 30 degrees altitude) to correct for refractive tracking errors.

In the case of the lower end mounts, allowing PHD2 to correct excursions in DEC by switching between North and South pulses (which you will need to do with a near perfect polar alignment) in the presence of any amount of gear lash makes things worse. A much better solution is to leave a bit of polar alignment offset so that you can control and mitigate any switching of the pulse-guide direction. You also need to bias the equipment load to be "camera heavy" on the DEC axis so you can ensure a positive/constant worm/wheel contact which minimizes the effect of any gear lash in the system. This will generally result in much better performance for lower end mount systems such as the EXOS 2 and iEXOS 100 PMC-Eight systems. 

This has generally been my experience and also the experience of a lot of customers I have spoken to over the years. IMHO, the advent of these new polar alignment tools over the past few years has ironically made the problem worse for astrophotographer's using lower end equipment as I said above. 

I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this

Thanks
 
--
Jerry Hubbell
Vice President of Engineering

Explore Scientific, LLC.
jrh at explorescientific.com

www.explorescientificusa.com
1010 S. 48th Street
Springdale, AR 72762
1-866-252-3811

Author: Scientific Astrophotography: How Amateurs Can Generate and Use Professional Imaging Data
             Remote Observatories for Amateur Astronomers: Using High-Powered Telescopes From Home


Mark Slade Remote Observatory (MSRO) IAU MPC W54 Equipment
Wilderness, VA
Mounts
: ES PMC-Eight G11 + Telescope Drive Master (TDM)
Scopes: ES 165 FPL-53 ED APO CF, ES 102 FCD100 ED APO CF
Cameras:  QHY174M-GPS + FW, QHY163C
Misc: 3-inch 0.7x Focal Reducer Field Flattener, Filters: Luminance,
Red, V-band Photometric, Diffuser, 200 lpmm Spectral Grating

Software: MaxIm DL 6, Cartes du Ciel, Astrometrica, AstroImageJ, AutoStakkert!