Topics

Comments about the EXOS 2 PMC-Eight on CloudyNights #EXOS2


Jerry Hubbell - Explore Scientific VP Engineering
 

I am not sure if this is a good idea, but I thought I would make this suggestion.  I just ran across a post on CloudyNights about the EXOS 2 PMC-Eight mount from a vendor talking about the performance of the EXOS 2 mount compared to a SkyWatcher EQ6... Here is the link to the thread

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/715185-exos2-gt-pmc-eight-vs-eq6-r/?p=10302376

If anyone cares to comment on his statements I would appreciate it. I am forbidden from responding and as a vendor he should not be making statements about other vendor's products either based on the terms of service for vendors.

Anyway, I thought I would make this suggestion. Thanks
--
Jerry Hubbell
Vice President of Engineering

Explore Scientific, LLC.
jrh at explorescientific.com

www.explorescientificusa.com
1010 S. 48th Street
Springdale, AR 72762
1-866-252-3811

Author: Scientific Astrophotography: How Amateurs Can Generate and Use Professional Imaging Data
             Remote Observatories for Amateur Astronomers: Using High-Powered Telescopes From Home


Mark Slade Remote Observatory (MSRO) IAU MPC W54 Equipment
Wilderness, VA
Mounts
: ES PMC-Eight G11 + Telescope Drive Master (TDM)
Scopes: ES 165 FPL-53 ED APO CF, ES 102 FCD100 ED APO CF
Cameras:  QHY174M-GPS + FW, QHY163C
Misc: 3-inch 0.7x Focal Reducer Field Flattener, Filters: Luminance,
Red, V-band Photometric, Diffuser, 200 lpmm Spectral Grating

Software: MaxIm DL 6, Cartes du Ciel, Astrometrica, AstroImageJ, AutoStakkert!


 

Way ahead of you.  Done.  :-)

On Wed, Jul 1, 2020, at 12:08, Jerry Hubbell - Explore Scientific VP Engineering wrote:
I am not sure if this is a good idea, but I thought I would make this suggestion.  I just ran across a post on CloudyNights about the EXOS 2 PMC-Eight mount from a vendor talking about the performance of the EXOS 2 mount compared to a SkyWatcher EQ6... Here is the link to the thread


If anyone cares to comment on his statements I would appreciate it. I am forbidden from responding and as a vendor he should not be making statements about other vendor's products either based on the terms of service for vendors.

Anyway, I thought I would make this suggestion. Thanks
--
Jerry Hubbell
Vice President of Engineering
Explore Scientific, LLC.
jrh at explorescientific.com

www.explorescientificusa.com
1010 S. 48th Street
Springdale, AR 72762
1-866-252-3811

Author: Scientific Astrophotography: How Amateurs Can Generate and Use Professional Imaging Data
             Remote Observatories for Amateur Astronomers: Using High-Powered Telescopes From Home


Mark Slade Remote Observatory (MSRO) IAU MPC W54 Equipment
Wilderness, VA
Mounts
: ES PMC-Eight G11 + Telescope Drive Master (TDM)
Scopes: ES 165 FPL-53 ED APO CF, ES 102 FCD100 ED APO CF
Cameras:  QHY174M-GPS + FW, QHY163C
Misc: 3-inch 0.7x Focal Reducer Field Flattener, Filters: Luminance,
Red, V-band Photometric, Diffuser, 200 lpmm Spectral Grating

Software: MaxIm DL 6, Cartes du Ciel, Astrometrica, AstroImageJ, AutoStakkert!



--
Mounts: ES PMC-8 EXOS2
Scopes: SV 102EDT, ZWO 60/280 Guide
Cameras:  Nikon D5300, Altair GPCAM2 290M
Software: ASCOM, CdC, AstroTortilla, BYN Pro, Sharpcap, PHD2
Computer:  Thinkpad x230, Win7Pro/64


Jerry Hubbell - Explore Scientific VP Engineering
 

On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 12:13 PM, Robert Hoskin wrote:
Way ahead of you.  Done.  :-)
 
Thanks Bob!
 
--
Jerry Hubbell
Vice President of Engineering

Explore Scientific, LLC.
jrh at explorescientific.com

www.explorescientificusa.com
1010 S. 48th Street
Springdale, AR 72762
1-866-252-3811

Author: Scientific Astrophotography: How Amateurs Can Generate and Use Professional Imaging Data
             Remote Observatories for Amateur Astronomers: Using High-Powered Telescopes From Home


Mark Slade Remote Observatory (MSRO) IAU MPC W54 Equipment
Wilderness, VA
Mounts
: ES PMC-Eight G11 + Telescope Drive Master (TDM)
Scopes: ES 165 FPL-53 ED APO CF, ES 102 FCD100 ED APO CF
Cameras:  QHY174M-GPS + FW, QHY163C
Misc: 3-inch 0.7x Focal Reducer Field Flattener, Filters: Luminance,
Red, V-band Photometric, Diffuser, 200 lpmm Spectral Grating

Software: MaxIm DL 6, Cartes du Ciel, Astrometrica, AstroImageJ, AutoStakkert!


Timothy Myers
 

Also responded, so if Vendors aren't allowed to make comments about other peoples stuff why does this clown get to?
--
Tim Myers

Telescopes:     Celestron 4SE, Celestron 8SE, SkyWatcher 100ED Pro
Mounts:           4-5 SE, 6-8SE, EXOS-2GT with PMC-Eight
Cameras:        ASI1600MC, Cooled
Tablets:           Asus Nexus 7, Amazon Fire 7
Laptop:           Lenovo


 

Bugged me, too - but the good news is that the thread seems to have worked out very well in the end.  
 
--
Mounts: ES PMC-8 EXOS2
Scopes: SV 102EDT, ZWO 60/280 Guide
Cameras:  Nikon D5300, Altair GPCAM2 290M
Software: ASCOM, CdC, AstroTortilla, BYN Pro, Sharpcap, PHD2
Computer:  Thinkpad x230, Win7Pro/64


Timothy Myers
 

Yes, I just saw his latest post, seems his tune has changed somewhat.
--
Tim Myers

Telescopes:     Celestron 4SE, Celestron 8SE, SkyWatcher 100ED Pro
Mounts:           4-5 SE, 6-8SE, EXOS-2GT with PMC-Eight
Cameras:        ASI1600MC, Cooled
Tablets:           Asus Nexus 7, Amazon Fire 7
Laptop:           Lenovo


Patrick Maher
 
Edited

I'm not sure which rule of the Cloudy Nights forum Jerry is referring to about Vendors not being allowed to comment on products but, there is an obvious downside to doing so.  For example, I now have no desire to ever purchase anything from that clown in that Cloudy Nights thread.  THIS is the biggest problem with vendors running their mouths.  It could/would hurt them more than it would help anyone or themselves. 

That vendor wasn't even close in his assessment of the EXOS2-GT PMC-8 at the beginning of the thread.  Then, he just dug himself into a deeper hole in subsequent comments.  As has been mentioned, he did back off a bit and concede on a few points by the end of the thread though.  That was only thanks to those from this forum who chimed in to correct him and give the rest of the community some additional and accurate info.

Regardless of rules, Jerry was wise to keep from getting involved in that thread.  And, thank you to those who did get involved to correctly inform that particular vendor.

On a related note...  Please, please, please, to Explore Scientific...  if you are going to need to name another new mount in the future, please do not use the name of a previous mount in the naming nomenclature.  Using the EXOS2-GT naming nomenclature in the PMC-8 version's name has seriously confused everyone who knows to avoid the original EXOS2-GT.  If you happen to release a new version of the EXOS2-GT PMC-8, please drop the EXOS2 and replace it with EXOS3 or similar.  If a completely new mount that has a heavier capacity, use the iEXOS naming convention and maybe make it an iEXOS-11 or similar.  Because of the reputation of the original Bresser EXOS2-GT, the EXOS2-GT name should never have been used wholly.  Even adding an "i" prefix would have been better if there was a licensing condition stating the EXOS2 name must be included.  

On another note to Explore Scientific...  It is obvious to everyone who frequents astronomy forums (fora) that there is an abundance of bad feelings about the EXOS2-GT in the community that carries over to neverending advice to avoid this mount like the plague.  More often than not, the people recommending this are confusing the PMC-8 mount with the original Bresser EXOS2.  I would recommend producing a series of promotional videos, each highlighting a different feature of the EXOS2-GT PMC-8.    I seem to remember a nice promo video for the iEXOS-100 that was similar to most camera promotional videos.  I liked that promo.  These videos should be short and feature the mount only, no human other than an appropriate voice-over when necessary.  YouTube and the forums need to be bombarded with these promotional videos to bring new attention and interest to this mount.  Actually, if you create a number of nice short but slick promo videos and promote them effectively in YouTube, I know they will quickly find their way to just about every forum online one way or another.  Perhaps then the common perception of this poor, misunderstood mount would change in a positive way.  

Patrick
--
Explore Scientific iEXOS-100 and EXOS-2GT (non-PMC)
Explore Scientific ED 102mm Refractor


 

Patrick,
 
The CN rule would have been in their Terms of Service, section #VI.  It's a tiny little link, lower right on the home page.  Not easy to spot, but it's there.
 
I did go over to Mr. Thomas's web site to investigate, and he appears to sell  fairly high end gear, plus a hypertune service for other mounts. So he did not appear to be a reseller of the other mount being discussed. 
 
Once I'd checked both of those things, I realized that while his posts were pretty annoying, they also didn't look like a clearcut TOS violation to me.
 
He was just a guy with a strongly-held opinion based on some incorrect assumptions.  But he had expertise in premium equipment, so that gave him cred.  Possibly because of that, BobZ who does a lot of recommendations on CN, stayed with the thread to the end... (check out the 'likes').  
 
That was interesting, because Mr. T., while a pretty frustrating guy, willingly changed his opinions when evidence appeared, that crossed his 'proof' threshold.
 
By the time we got to the end, a thread that started out badly had turned into a string of endorsements, not just from those of us that posted, but from Mr. T. as well.  IMO, that will probably count for something in future threads.  


- Bob
 
--
Mounts: ES PMC-8 EXOS2
Scopes: SV 102EDT, ZWO 60/280 Guide
Cameras:  Nikon D5300, Altair GPCAM2 290M
Software: ASCOM, CdC, AstroTortilla, BYN Pro, Sharpcap, PHD2
Computer:  Thinkpad x230, Win7Pro/64


Jerry Hubbell - Explore Scientific VP Engineering
 

On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 09:48 AM, Patrick Maher wrote:
f you are going to need to name another new mount in the future, please do not use the name of a previous mount in the naming nomenclature.  Using the EXOS2-GT naming nomenclature in the PMC-8 version's name has seriously confused everyone who knows to avoid the original EXOS2-GT. 
Hi Patrick,

Thank you for your thoughts on this. Just to let everyone know, I have been chastised in the past for notifying the moderators about certain comments from other vendors basically bad mouthing our equipment, but these comments in this instance did not rise to that level in my opinion. I very much appreciate and have seen where our customers respond on CloudyNights to share their experiences with our equipment, just as on this forum. The prohibition against vendors replying on threads that are not on the Vendor forum on CN is basically about not "promoting" your equipment. The moderators on CN have interpreted that to also mean "defending" against misinformation. I have been dinged for this a couple of times, so now I tend to not respond at all.

As far as the naming of our mounts, yes, we have already done as you suggest. We will be releasing more mounts in the future.
The EXOS II (EXOS 2) PMC-Eight mount will be phased out in the future... You can expect to see the replacement by the end of the year.
 
Thanks again everyone for your support.
--
Jerry Hubbell
Vice President of Engineering

Explore Scientific, LLC.
jrh at explorescientific.com

www.explorescientificusa.com
1010 S. 48th Street
Springdale, AR 72762
1-866-252-3811

Author: Scientific Astrophotography: How Amateurs Can Generate and Use Professional Imaging Data
             Remote Observatories for Amateur Astronomers: Using High-Powered Telescopes From Home


Mark Slade Remote Observatory (MSRO) IAU MPC W54 Equipment
Wilderness, VA
Mounts
: ES PMC-Eight G11 + Telescope Drive Master (TDM)
Scopes: ES 165 FPL-53 ED APO CF, ES 102 FCD100 ED APO CF
Cameras:  QHY174M-GPS + FW, QHY163C
Misc: 3-inch 0.7x Focal Reducer Field Flattener, Filters: Luminance,
Red, V-band Photometric, Diffuser, 200 lpmm Spectral Grating

Software: MaxIm DL 6, Cartes du Ciel, Astrometrica, AstroImageJ, AutoStakkert!